Are there any Rumbelle/Rumple/Belle fans who are also Regina fans?

violetfaust:

frenchroast007:

Yep!

I think there are quite a few actually. (I like Regina but not everything she does.)

Me! If you couldn’t tell that from my mix of avatar and blog header. Rumple is my fave character, Regina is my second favorite. I know that Regina has done some nasty stuff to Belle and I don’t like that, especially because I don’t think she even apologized. – Regina, Belle is not just a tool to use against Rumple, she is her own person and you should treat her better!

My favorite headcanon has Rumple and Regina teaming up, using their moral flexibility (doing what needs to be done) to be far more effective at saving the day from the villain of the week than the ‘heroes’.

I might have got my hopes up a bit for the finale and then it was dashed because Regina was just playing him. I doubt I will ever get to see this on screen really which is a shame. Unless of course in season six, Regina has to come to terms with her darkness and accept it, not just bury it and no-one is going to understand her better than Rumple. He was her mentor once, he could be again and her friend. Just so long as she apologizes to Belle first.

Discussion Topics & Questions

whitesheepcbd:

ouat-rewatch:

Trying something new here….I feel we’re off to a great start
with this rewatch blog. A handful of people are posting their observations on
each day’s episode, others are contributing picture sets and gif sets and judging
by the number of likes and reblogs I see on my activity feed, people are
enjoying the rewatch. But I’d like to get some discussion going as well, so I’m
posting a short list of questions or discussion starters and I’m hoping
everyone will join in.

A couple points before we start:

I realize in retrospect that these questions ended up
sounding like essay questions on a literature exam. “Discuss the symbolism of
the conch shell in Lord of the Flies.”
If I caused unpleasant flashbacks for
anyone, I sincerely apologize.

Everyone please keep discussions objective and respectful. Tag
your responses with the usual #ouatrewatch2016 and I’ll keep reblogging
everyone’s contributions unless I think the conversation has taken an overly negative
turn. What you reblog and discuss on your own blogs is up to you.

Also….one of the things that made me think of doing this is
that someone asked, in their post about The Pilot, if it was ever explained
where Mary-Margaret got the storybook. I meant to answer that and forgot at the
time, but yes, that was answered much later. I think it was when they were in
the Underworld, and M-M said that she was cleaning out her closet (in Storybrooke)
one day and just found the book buried in the back. If anyone can name the
exact episode, feel free to chime in.

These six questions were culled from my own posts about the
first two episodes. If anyone wants to post more questions or topics for
discussion, please, make your own post and tag it. I’ll reblog it so everyone
can see it and hopefully we can have some great discussions.

1.
In Snowing’s wedding vows, instead of promising
each other ‘till death do us part’, they promised ‘for all eternity’. Thoughts
on why the writers made that change? Does living in a world of magic change the
meaning of death?

2.
Computers and the Internet have been mentioned
and shown in Storybrooke, so it’s not as if its residents were deprived of
modern technology. Why do we never hear the characters talk about “those
pictures I saw online of XX place, it looked so beautiful, I want to go there”
or any of the millions of other things they could find on the Internet?

3.
How is it that Emma spent her entire childhood
in the foster care system, despite healthy newborn girls being highly sought
after by hopeful adoptive parents?

4.
In 1×02, we see Regina turn herself into a mouse
to visit Rumplestiltskin in his cell. Did we ever see anyone turn themselves
into an animal again? I don’t think we did…why do you think the show dropped
that?

5.
When Rumplestiltskin negotiated for a life of
comfort in the Land Without Magic, he seemed to consider it a foregone
conclusion that he’d be going there. But later in the series, Regina stated
that she brought only who she wanted to Storybrooke. So that implies that
Regina wanted him there…why? Or was his inclusion something he bargained for
when he gave her the spell?

6.
Why did Henry Sr. die when Regina ripped his
heart out, when it was shown later that it’s possible to remove someone’s heart
without killing them? Was that just a writing inconsistency or do you think the
intent of the heart-ripping makes a difference?

Re-blogging this here in case any of my OUaT followers on my personal blog would like to participate. 

1) I think ‘for all eternity’ is just nice words to be honest. It sounds less grim and more magical. However, in recent times (*cough* underworld *cough*) they have shown that life continues after death. So yeah, maybe in a world of magic death isn’t the end and perhaps certainly not for true love.

2) I think it’s because it adds a complicated level that the writers don’t want to deal with. They have never really explained how Storybrooke’s economy works, how the stores get supplied, where everyone works etc. It’s a town that was cursed into existence and as far as the outside world is concerned, it doesn’t exist but yet it does – for Henry’s adoption, for Mary Margaret’s ‘credit card’ and yeah for the internet. So I think it’s kinda hand waved so the writers don’t have to think about it.

Plus with how often the town line is blocked off for various reasons, going on vacation elsewhere is a bit tricky. Therefore looking at pictures is nothing but a dream. I mean technically speaking they never showed on screen the third dark curse breaking. Dopey should still be blocking the road as a tree and everyone who crossed the town line should have joined him like a mini-forest, unless they had Rumple’s sack of anti-transforming dust.

3) I believe that Emma did say once that she got adopted but returned to the system when she was three. I think she said that the couple had finally managed to have their own child and didn’t have to ‘make do’ any longer. That last bit could just be my head canon though.

4) I think the show started off being a bit more true to the fairytales and then wound up dropping lots of things. Like in the pilot, Snow said that Regina tried to kill her because “she was prettier than her” and David said “the animals are all talking about the Queen’s plan.” We did see Rumple transform people into things, like snails or roses (or a butcher into a pig) but that was kinda fatal.

5) My interpretation of Regina bringing who she wanted, was less about the living and more about the dead. I think the curse brought everyone who was alive, and anyone that didn’t fit the curse criteria (like the dead) Regina had to bring on a case by case basis.

6) I think the heart ripping out thing was something they changed after the first few episodes. Henry senior’s heart for the spell wasn’t glowing or magical, it looked like a regular heart, like it had been physically cut out from his chest. That would be why he died immediately. Then later they decided “hey this heart ripping out thing has potential for other stuff” and made it so you could live with it removed/hearts could be crushed, all that stuff.

I do hope they explain why crushing her heart didn’t kill her. How do you think she survived? Also, the heart Regina crushed should have an impact on her, but well…

thatravenclawbitch:

sgtmac7:

While the show has certainly not earned faith when it comes to explaining the fantastic, since that question will absolutely be brought up, perhaps we should wait before assuming we will hate the answer. My guess is it will either be something big picture like evil is necessary for balance and thus can’t ever be fully eradicated simply controlled and harnessed or it’ll he related to magic being different in the real world or something like that.

In season 4, there was a deleted scene of Rumple finding the dust left by Elsa’s urn and explaining to everyone that magic can never be destroyed, just change forms. The scene was cut so they later had Rumple give a truncated version of that speech to the Snow Queen when he used that dust to neutralize her. It’s why the idea of destroying the Dark One never made much sense to me. It seems like the magic would always exist, you could just maybe change it somehow. I wondered if the Evil Queen’s resurrection had something to do with that. Of course, it’s probably silly of me to think the show remembers a line of dialogue from season 4. 

When I saw the Evil Queen crumbling to dust, then ‘returning’ to life I had two thoughts:

1) We saw Zelena surviving being killed by transforming before. She turned into a statue before Rumple stabbed her and then she somehow went in an energy stream to her magic locket before respawning.

I usually try not to think about it because I never liked her coming back to life like that. It felt like such a retcon because watching 4A, knowing Zelena is Marion just doesn’t seem right. She nearly died from the Snow Queen icing her heart – I can’t imagine Zelena not fighting back over that. Anyway, I digress. My point is they have faked us out with a transformation death like that before – it has precedence.

2) Two sides to the coin, two halves of the same soul. Regina and the Evil Queen aren’t two people, they are the same, magic has just split them into two bodies. Therefore, given that they are still connected (being the same person) I would think that you couldn’t kill one without killing both.

Regina crushed the Evil Queen’s heart, but that was using magic to destroy a magical construct. That wasn’t really a heart, because Regina’s heart is still in her chest, so crushing it isn’t going to do anything.The Evil Queen can’t be killed, not physically anyway, not unless Regina dies too because she is both.

I read a fanfic once, I forgot what it was so I can’t link it sorry but Belle accidentally released a genie who was under instructions to kill Regina – it was an unfilled wish. They got it ‘completed’ for him by saying that Regina wasn’t the Evil Queen any longer. That the Queen was dead and Regina herself had killed her by changing. I rather suspect that the show will wind up doing something similar, and the Evil Queen will be ‘killed’ by acceptance.

Lightning realization – who really wanted to destroy magic!

I was thinking about the finale this morning, about how it didn’t make sense that they found the holy grail ‘end of magic’ right when they wanted it. Why was it in New York? How had it even got there from the Enchanted Forest? What was with Neal having this quest to destroy magic?

Then it hit me!

Tamara was Neal’s fiance – and she wanted to destroy magic. That was what she thought she was doing when she working for Pan (aka the home office), she thought that was what the mission was.

Given they were together any notes on destroying magic, left in Neal’s apartment, could have been hers. The holy grail in New York, could have been found anywhere in the world, it could have been tossed through by a magic bean by someone in the past terrified that magic could be destroyed. It wound up in New York because that was where Tamara was maybe.

So why did Henry say that Neal had wanted to destroy magic? That Neal had been in New York searching for a way to destroy magic. That sounds pretty irrefutable right? It must have been Neal and Tamara was just a coincidence, weird how they had the same goal but neither of them knew that.

August told Neal about the dark curse, how it brought everyone from their land to this one – the land without magic. The curse didn’t bring magic, that was never on the cards until Rumple threw the true love potion down the well and magic came to Storybrooke. Magic didn’t need to be destroyed, because as far as anyone was aware – there was no magic in the … land WITHOUT magic!

Neal and Henry couldn’t have spent all that much time together. I’m thinking a week or two at the most between arriving back in Storybrooke and Neal getting shot and falling through the portal back to the Enchanted Forest. I know time on the show is kinda fluid and it’s hard to tell, but with how fast stuff seems to happen it might have only been a few days.

Back in the Enchanted Forest Neal (Bae back then) would have searched for a way to destroy magic, because it was magic that had changed his papa. When he got the bean to go to the land without magic, that completed his quest. I know it was ‘canon’ because Henry said it on screen but people do get confused, misinterpret or mis-remember.

If Henry was thinking about destroying magic and then remembered his dad saying that he’d tried the same. It’s not a big leap. His dad meant New York and then the more stuff he found, the more he thought he was right in what he remembered. I don’t know, it’s just a theory.

What hooked you on Once Upon a Time?

That’s a really bad phrase, no need to bring Hook into this after all. What I mean is what made you go “this is a show I need to watch!” and “watch all the episodes” rather than decide the show was meh and not care that much whether you saw more or not.

What made you decide to keep watching I guess?

This is in honor of the Once Upon a Time rewatch. I’m not joining in because I didn’t know it was a thing and I already started my rewatch so I’m on the second season.

They rewatched the pilot and that reminded me of when I first saw the show and what made me keep watching.

What made you like the show and keep watching past the initial episode you saw? What made you a fan?

For Me
It was last summer. I’d just got netflix, I went through the catalogue making a list of new shows to try and Once Upon a Time was one of them. I knew nothing about it but the one line netflix description but decided to give it a try. I planned on watching the pilot of a couple of different shows that evening.

Well, the show had barely been on a minute and my jaw had already dropped – the production values! Charming with his cape, on that horse with the narrow path in the lake – it was breathtaking. Then there was the true loves kiss, the interrupted wedding, it was just gorgeous to watch, never mind anything else.

So yeah, I watched another two episodes that evening and my fate was sealed. For once it wasn’t a character that provided the initial hook, it was the show itself. I was reminded of that with the finale. The land of untold stories looked incredible, there really isn’t any other show on TV (that I know about) that has sets like that. Anyway, obviously I kept on watching and at some point Rumple became my favorite character. It was early on, possibly from his very first appearance because wow didn’t he half sell it!

Interestingly enough my second favorite character is now Regina. However, I spent season one (the first time round) booing her basically. I really didn’t like her, I couldn’t see any of the complexity that I could in Rumple, I just thought she was mean and selfish etc. Well, it was episode 10 of season 2 – The Cricket Game. That welcome home party, with Emma saying that Regina seeing Henry not such a good plan, Regina’s expression was heartbreaking. I felt like Emma was being a bit petty at that point, getting her own back for when Regina had done the same to her, well now the situation was flipped and anyway I felt for Regina in that moment. Having sympathized with her once, I guess I started to understand her a little more and yeah now she is my second favorite.

What made you a fan?

Question – Kingdom of Avonlea

rowofstars:

standbyyourmantis:

silromen:

whitesheepcbd:

still-searching47:

I have read fanfic where Belle is Princess of Avonlea, who will one day be Queen. I have also read fanfic where she is the daughter of a border knight – Sir Maurice, who looks after a small area of the kingdom of Avonlea.

Now the Once Upon a Time wiki lists him as Sir Maurice – not King Maurice. However, in Skin Deep wasn’t he wearing a crown? I’m just wondering what it is in canon. I mean the whole arranged marriage for an army thing, makes Belle and Maurice sound more important than just a knight and his daughter.

So is Belle a Princess or just a Lady? Anyone know or is it up for debate and pick whatever option makes most sense for the story? I’m plotting something and I want to get it right.

That’s a question that’s been debated before, and as far as I know, the fandom never reached a satisfactory answer that we could all agree had been backed up by canon. The show runners seem to have left it deliberately vague. But I’ll signal boost you & see if anyone else wants to chime in on this.

Part of the fun of fanfic is that you can spin things any way you want without being overly concerned with canon!

That said, Sir Maurice just has a cool hat on in Skin Deep, not a crown, and Rumple talks about saving their “little town,” not their kingdom, so there are signs that he’s more of a lesser lord and definitely not a king. The ruling structure of the Enchanted Forest has never been fully defined, so it’s hard to say if Maurice is a knight or a successful merchant or what. I don’t know anything about historical hierarchies for comparison. Maybe someone else can shed some light?

I’ve always just gone with what worked for the story. Sometimes she’s the daughter of a knight, sometimes the princess of a small merchant kingdom. At this point, there really isn’t any one right answer so just do what you want. Nobody is going to pillory you in the town square on this one.

I suspect he wasn’t a king, but then in Her Handsome Hero this season, they made him one or made him higher ranking. I’m pretty sure I remember Gaston explicitly asking Belle to be his queen so that means someone in this is a prince or princess. I believe it’s Belle.

But exactly what Mantis said. Do want works for the story. That’s why it’s an AU. 🙂

Thanks for your answers guys! Super helpful. I really appreciate it 🙂

I’m going to make her a Princess (and eventual Queen) because it works better for the story. If the answer had been that she was definitely just a knights daughter, then I would have had her become Queen/ruler of the kingdom some other way, this just makes it simpler. I just wanted to get it right in the first place.

I guess I wasn’t sure what the canon was because canon isn’t sure. Maybe she started off just a noble but then as rowofstars said, they made her more later on. Anyway, it works.

Thank you!

What’s That Word Again?

snitchwillow:

ellen729:

So, two seasons ago, Emma convinced Past-Rumplestiltskin to let Neal die because he’d died a hero, sacrificing himself for everyone. She told him he couldn’t take that away from his son.

This season, Emma risked the lives of her whole family and wound up releasing a Dark God from the Underworld and basically putting the whole world at risk to bring Hook back from the dead even though that was supposed to have been an heroic death.

What’s the word I’m looking for? Starts with an “H” and ends with “ypocrisy.”

*slams fist on table and slams reblog button* THANK YOU!!!

Maybe it’s because they realized Hook’s death wasn’t all that heroic, he was just cleaning up his own mess. Neal was a real hero.

Do you believe in magic?

When I was finding my Rumbelle fan theory on my blog I found this snippet, a small theory about Emma and why she has changed so much since season one.

At the end of season one, Emma was made to believe in magic and that sort of pulls the rug out from reality. Maybe she doesn’t think about the consequences of anything anymore because she’s living in a magical bubble, where anything is possible and anything can be real, and so what’s the harm?

Emma has lost her grip on reality and with it what little common sense she had. I liked her in season one – mostly, she seemed to have a bite to her that said she understood the real world. Now? Not so much.

I cheered so much when Emma said “screw it” and dropped the sword in favor of her gun when fighting the dragon at the end of season one. Finally, there was a character that didn’t ignore the easy options. Sure it failed and she had to use the sword after all, but she tried the gun first, that’s what mattered.

Now don’t get me wrong I still like Emma. I just worry about her because she does these crazy things like dragging Henry down to the underworld in a futile attempt to save her boyfriend. Admittedly everyone was at fault there, seriously did not one person think that taking a kid to the underworld was a bad plan?

Anyway, I digress, basically for Emma discovering that life is actually a fairytale and that magic is real, throws all the natural laws of the world out the window. That has to have an impact. I mean basically they’ve now even proved that death isn’t always final. What are the rules of Emma Swan’s reality? What does she have to hold onto, to know this is actually real? Come to think of it, Henry is bound to have a similar problem.

What is True Love?

When it comes to true love on the show, that is sometimes up for debate. I have always thought true love should mean true acceptance. How can you truly love someone if you don’t love all of them? This is why I struggle to understand how people can be true love, if they haven’t known each other all that long.

True love might just be ‘soul mates’, sort of a magical connection and that is there whether the couple know one another or not. However, if this was 100% true, then true loves kiss would work when people had lost their memories. The show proved more than once, that the person with amnesia needed to start feeling love again (Snow to Charming for example when she took the potion) before the kiss would work.

However, this post isn’t really about the definition of true love. It’s about Rumplestiltskin and Belle and a theory I have about what went wrong in their relationship. How did we get from the true loves kiss in Skin Deep, to how their relationship progressed once they were reunited in Storybrooke?

In the episode ‘Our Decay’ Rumple finally stood up for himself. He told Belle that she loved all of him and I don’t think he was wrong. It wouldn’t have been true love if she hadn’t loved him as he was – and she met him as the dark one – after all the subsequent suffering she lost sight of that.

I know I said I wasn’t going to question the nature of true love. However, this does lead into my theory. I have questioned a few times how they were true love, given her intent when she kissed him was to break the curse of the dark one. I mean what did she say to Regina – “I could love him but something evil has taken root in him” – which suggests that she loved the man she thought he was under the curse, not who he actually was. I suppose it depends what she thought breaking that curse would do. Did she know it would take his power away? As I said at the top, I sometimes struggle to understand how true love can happen without true acceptance.

Anyway, they are true love and that is a fact. Therefore I choose to believe that is because Belle had true acceptance once. Perhaps at the beginning in Skin Deep it wasn’t something she consciously admitted because you aren’t supposed to love someone who is “dark”. Maybe she would have come to accept that if she had been able to return – “I’m coming back Rumple” – she declared right before Regina captured her and then she was locked up for a long time.

Rumple and Belle have been apart far more than they have ever been together. Imagine somewhere you went as a young kid, or something you did, or something you saw etc. and for years and years all you had was the memory. You then go back to that place, watch it again or go through the same experience but it’s different – it’s not what you remember.

If it’s supposed to be a good memory, over the years the mind romanticizes certain parts, plays up the good and obscures the bad. We’ll paint ourselves in better lights, we’ll give ourselves more noble reasons, we’ll ascribe more meaning or knowledge to the situation that only hindsight gave us, not something we knew at the time.

I wonder if that’s not what happened with Belle. She remembered loving Rumple but they never had a life together, not as a couple, and so she created a fantasy which didn’t match reality. She turned her memory of him, into something that he never was and I don’t think she even realizes that she did that. She keeps saying that he was different back then – but he was the dark one. He hasn’t changed.

How the warped memory affects their relationship
I’ve always thought that Belle constantly demanding he change and emotionally blackmailing him, to try and force him was wrong. She did that from the very beginning of their ‘reconciliation’ back in season two. “I thought you changed.” and Rumple says “What in the hour you’ve known me.” or words to that effect. She walked out but then she came back. She’s said a couple of times in different ways “promise me and then we can be together”.

Now I get couples need to compromise, work together, make sacrifices etc. but using love against someone, threatening to withhold it if they don’t do what you want is bad. I’m hesitant to label it abuse but it certainly isn’t nice. I know when it comes to Rumple and Belle, the haters of their relationship always think that Rumple abuses Belle, but to be honest I’ve always thought it more the other way round.

Rumple does lie to Belle but only because he’s scared of her reaction. He has this belief that if he’s not perfect she’ll leave him – and that belief is just justified because that’s what she does, all the damn time.

Well finally he stood up for himself. – “But if you want me to be a different man… I’m sorry. This is who I am.” – Why is that wrong? If the situation was reversed and he demanded she change for him then everyone would be up in arms.

Loving someone is accepting them for who they are. Belle once told Neal she loved Rumple – “all of him, even the parts that belong to the darkness” – but those are just words. In actions, certainly in all their recent interactions, there has been no acceptance of the darkness.

I’ve never quite got why Belle kept saying he had to choose. Having power doesn’t mean he loves her any less. I think maybe she got scared about what that power could lead too. Given Regina, the curse, Lacey etc. it wouldn’t be unreasonable for her to have a fear of magic. She once saw magic kill Rumple, and then it killed Neal and then Rumple was never the same.

After he was free from Zelena, the darkness took over and Rumple lost control. He went after the hat because he thought that would save him. The dagger made him a slave, I can certainly understand the fear of being controlled. The first thing Zelena ordered him to do was kill Belle. He said in Our Decay that he “loved the dagger” but it’s the power the dagger represents.

Belle once used the gauntlet and she thought that power was what he loved most. I think it’s pretty much accepted in the Rumbelle fandom that the gauntlet showed his weakness not what he loved the most – Belle has always been his strength. I really don’t see why he can’t have both, his magic and Belle. She first fell in love with him as the dark one – a sorcerer – so why should he now have to be anything less than himself?

Rumple said that Belle would see that “he was right” and I certainly hope she does. I think he is right. She said that she couldn’t condone him being like this again – but why not? What exactly is she objecting to? Rumple never did anything ‘villainous’ until after Zelena had killed his son, tortured him for a year and the darkness took hold of his heart. Oh sure he was never a saint but was he such a danger to the town when he worked with them against Cora? allied with them in Neverland to find Henry? defeated Pan?

I have written before that I don’t think anyone is all good, or all evil – we are both. Life isn’t so black and white, it’s just all shades of grey. I’ve long thought so-called villains made the best heroes, precisely because they will do what is necessary to get the job done. They don’t have the hangups about ‘I can go this far, but not that far’ and so they are a lot more successful than people that hamstring themselves.

In ‘Her Handsome Hero’ Rumple basically talked so much sense. It was like he finally understood the truth about darkness and light, perhaps even found that prophesied balance. Belle on the other hand was pretty sanctimonious and then after the events with Gaston, rather than giving her a reality check it pushed her the other way.

I’m wondering if maybe this sleeping curse is a good thing because she is now trapped in the hall of mirrors. All she can do is reflect on her life and maybe a period of introspection will give her the time, and the space, that she needs to realize the truth of the matter. That Rumple is the same man now, that he has always been – her true love.

I firmly believe Rumple’s true loves kiss didn’t work in the underworld because he didn’t believe that it would. If he had faith in himself, in that Belle did actually love him, then it would have been fine. However, he’s taken too many knocks to have that certainty.

It’s like they are fighting between what they consciously try and think, and what they know deep down in their subconscious. I thought it was very telling that Belle kept correcting people that Rumple was her husband, that her first thought on arriving in the underworld was that Rumple needed her – that she went to look for him straight away.

Basically Rumbelle’s biggest problem is their failure to communicate. However, I have every faith that they can do it because they are true love. So long as they love one another, everything else should hopefully work out. That might be dangerously naive of me but if the canon on the show lets me down, there’s always fanfic.

Three hours to go …

If I’m understanding time zones right the finale will air in three hours. Being based in the UK I will hopefully a) be asleep then and b) I won’t see the episodes until Wednesday when they go up on Netflix.

I haven’t quite finished my Rumbelle is Hope fic and if I’m going to post it tomorrow I’m going to have to leave my prompt out. I started writing before I got the prompt and I was going to have to rewrite a chunk to make it work. I was going to do that but it’s been the week from hell and I do want to post the fic for the event.

That being said with the time difference it should hopefully still be posted before America wakes up. Plus I really want to use my prompt so that just means another fic in the future. So there is a positive spin to this.

Before Last Rites aired I said I was going to try and avoid reading tumblr so I didn’t get completely spoiled – epic failure. I got no self control and man Wednesday seems so far away!

I’m keeping my fingers crossed Rumple, Belle and Regina come out of the finale ok and are well set up for season six. That’s all I want. Possibly too much to ask, we shall see.

Enjoy the finale everyone! Try and not bite the nails too badly 🙂