woodelf68:

whitesheepcbd:

OK, rewatched the Rumbelle scenes and I have questions.

I found this line of Belle’s intriguing: 

Our child will better off waiting with me than being in debt to you. 

Why would the baby be in debt to Rumple? The only thing I can think of is for waking Belle & baby up, but that doesn’t really click for me. Why would Belle speak of their baby being in debt to its father? 

Also…when Belle woke up, she referred to their son playing the part of Morpheus to warn her. At NO point during the scene where Morpheus is talking to Belle, did anyone mention his name. So how did she know he was Morpheus?

Rumple’s transition from imp!Rumplestiltskin to Mr. Gold happened between these lines: 

Belle: Wha– What’s going on? 

Morpheus: Oh, I think you know…Mother. 

I’m sure that timing was very deliberate, but I can’t figure out the significance of it right now. Anyone else want to chime in?

Yes! I wondered about that debt line too, it doesn’t make sense to me. And also how did she know he was ‘playing at being Morpheus’? Even if his name was mentioned, how would she know whether he was the real Morpheus somehow or just someone else ‘playing’ at being the god of dreams? Maybe a line was cut in editing?

I get the feeling a lot was cut in editing. I was the episodes could be 3x as long heh 🙂 They certainly have the material and that way all characters could have the time they needed.

“Our child will better off waiting with me than being in debt to you.“ – This line is quite nonsensical because “waiting with me” means remaining in the sleeping curse, never getting born or growing up. To be honest this is one of the big red flags for me that suggest there was far more going on in that scene.

I’m coming more to the opinion that it wasn’t Belle’s dreamscape – it was Rumples and the Belle in it wasn’t Belle at all, but a conjured version as part of the dream. We only have ‘Morpheus’ word that they were sharing a dreamscape, what if they each had one of their own? Rumple gets to see his biggest fears play out, Belle obviously saw something similar. Only in that Rumple was probably emphasizing her worst fears, and maybe she got more assurance/proof which is why she believed it so much.

In the scene, she accepted that Morpheus was her son without any questioning really. I know that there was ‘true loves kiss’ but there was no distinctive flash and so I don’t think it really was. Hyde sent Rumple there, just as he sent Emma chasing after a red bird to find an oracle. He’s playing games and don’t all villains want to manipulate the dark one?

I don’t think Morpheus was their child. Perhaps he took on the image but I’m certain that was a lie, so as to better emotionally manipulate them both. Belle wants to do what is best for her child – for her childs future, so a warning from her child would be hard to ignore.

Switch back imp to Gold
In regards to the switch back from imp to Mr Gold. I think it was Morpheus trying to prove that it had all been a “cruel trick” as even his appearance had deceived her. It was yet another lie – playing along in her dreamscape (supposedly) and just more proof that nothing Rumple ever did could be trusted.

thatravenclawbitch:

So I’ve seen a bit of the spoilers from the episode and we were right that…

1. Morpheus is the Rumbaby
2. Rumbelle had a dream TLK
3. Morpheus TLK’d Belle awake
4. Emma’s big secret is that she’s gonna die

So, not bad at figuring out the master storytellers ™, guys.

Obviously I haven’t seen the episode so maybe this is addressed and I haven’t seen it, but why does Rumbaby hate Rumple? Can one week old fetuses hate (or love) anything? They are not cognizant. They are not capable of any thought much less complex emotion. He wasn’t actually like from the future or anything, was he? He just projected himself because it was his and Belle’s shared dream state? Also, since Rumbaby too was technically under the sleeping curse how did he wake Belle up? Can’t two cursed people not break each others curses or is that just fanon? But seriously, why does he hate Rumple already? Like Rumple has made some shitty choices in life, but he tried really hard to be a good dad. Bae’s last words were literally “I love you Papa”. So what’s this all about?

It wasn’t addressed, or at least I don’t think it was, but then it is only episode one. Personally, I don’t think we know enough to answer those questions with anything than theories but I’m always happy to theorize 🙂

Personally I’m not even convinced that was the Rumbaby. There was no distinctive flash for the true loves kiss, so I’m not convinced it was TLK. Plus, I don’t see how the baby could be ‘aware’ enough at this stage of development to even have an immature lashout based on Belle’s half of the story. I think someone might be playing games but we’ll find out I guess 🙂

The promo pictures for next week seem to suggest that Belle isn’t in the dreamworld anymore (that was one of my theories, that maybe her ‘waking up’ was actually a fakeout). I also wasn’t convinced that was Belle’s dreamscape, I thought it might be Rumples because of his cage and other reasons.

However, assuming that everything was real. I’m guessing that Rumbaby hates Rumple because he only has Belle’s half of the story – he’s getting his feelings from her and right now she is reeling. She decided to give Rumple another chance after the events of 4A (when they spent the night together) but they never resolved any of their issues.

Then she got hit with the series of revelations (pregnant, dark one again, Hades has a contract on the baby) and she stumbled around acting on instinct and fear. Went into the sleeping curse and now she’s overreacting. She wants to do what is best for her baby, for the babies future and what could be a bigger cosmic sign than actually hearing a warning from the baby. I’m more surprised Belle just believed it straight away but then she has always been quite reckless, impulsive and ruled by her emotions.

I don’t blame her one bit for her feelings. Rumple and Belle’s relationship is a mess but they both played a part in that, and I support them both. Personally I believe that this show arc is all about a journey towards self-acceptance. It’s playing out graphically for Regina vs the Evil Queen but all characters have that internal conflict. Belle needs some time but I have faith that all will be well in the end, it is after all only episode one 🙂

Plus, Rumple was very adamant about how much he loved Belle and their child, so his motivations are very clear and absolutely stated. So I’m not at all worried about where he stands. Family has always been his goal.

I have to admit though that the waking up scene felt rushed. To be honest I’m wondering if there is going to be a deleted/extended scene from that. It felt like that there was more that was said but not shown, might just have been me though.

I’m admitting to nothing *shifty looks* but … I might have seen the episode now thanks to someone very kind in the fandom.

*rubs hands together* oh man that was incredible. Where do I start? I did warn you guys I would be blogging the episode. This is over 4k of me going on a bit because it’s the premiere and I had a lot to say. I have split it into sections, so if you are only interested in say Rumbelle, you can skip everything else.

Full disclosure, I’m positive about almost everything but I’m not Hook or Zelena’s biggest fan, nor am I that enamored with how they are presenting CaptainSwan. I don’t think there’s any real character bashing though.

Oh and I don’t know about you guys but I’m not worried at all. I enjoyed the episode immensely and I will be watching again on Wednesday. Half because I pick up new details on a second viewing, but also because I don’t want Netflix to think they don’t need to add it because they definitely do.

Right there’s all the details in the world about Season Six, Episode One under the cut, so if you haven’t seen it yet, be warned 🙂

Continue reading →

Season 6 hasn’t been added to Netflix UK. I have to confess I’m kinda annoyed because so many sites reported it would be Monday and I got my hopes up. I’m all disappointed now hence the gif I chose to head this post. Anyway, it appears it’s going to be Wednesday after all 🙁

I will not be reading my feed until after I have seen the episode. So I would really appreciate it if you would consider this request. If you post something cool – art, fic, graphics etc. then please, please, please reblog at the end of the week. It’s not that I (or anyone else in my position) doesn’t care. It’s just that personally I want to be able to watch the episode, and form my own opinions, without being spoiled for every single detail.

I will still be posting fic, doing TMI Tuesday and replying to messages but please if you message me, or write on one of my posts, don’t go into detail about the previous Sunday’s episode until after Wednesday. I don’t want to know details heh.

(I was going to wait and post this next week but I’ve seen a few ‘season 6′ posts go up lately, so I’m going to post it now.)

The show might not always give me the canon I would like but it does give me a window into the world of the characters that I love.

When I watch something I suspend disbelief, so whether I like what happens or not, that is what happens and I deal with with it. If necessary I come up with headcanon explanations to fill in the blanks so it makes sense. I analyse everything for character motives and meanings and whether it’s angst or fluff, it’s what happens.

I’m UK based so I won’t get to watch on Sundays. I will have to wait three days until Netflix puts the episode up on Wednesdays. Which means I won’t be looking at my feed until I watch the episode. (Random note: please reblog your fanfic at the end of the week, or I and anyone else in my position will never see it). For most of season 5 I didn’t have a tumblr, I had a private blog. I wrote 15 posts with a combined word count of just over 48k … yikes I didn’t realize it was that much ooops.

Anyway, I’ll be three days late to the party every week but I’m planning on blogging season six as well. So, if you like indepth analysis of motives, speculation about what could happen next, lots of references to past seasons (especially if they do flashbacks because I try and place them in the timeline), lots of theorizing about anything that wasn’t completely explained etc. then I’ll be here most weeks. If you don’t I’ll be tagging ‘SS47 ouat season six review’ so you can blacklist.

This show captures my imagination and I love it. It’s nowhere near perfect and I’m not claiming I’ll be positive all the time, I suspect some frustration might creep in on occasion but ultimately this is my favorite currently airing show. There is nothing on TV like it and I’m going to enjoy it while it lasts.

If nothing else season 6 is going to be quite a ride 🙂

whitesheepcbd:

Esp as it relates to Rumple’s death (3×11) and Hook’s (5×11).

So I started my rewatch of OUaT in Wonderland yesterday, to be a little ahead of the @ouat-rewatch schedule. And the scene where Cyrus (he’s a genie, for those who haven’t watched Wonderland) tells Alice the rules of magic caught my attention. According to Cyrus, they are: 

1. Can’t kill anyone

2. Can’t bring anyone back from the dead.

3. Can’t make someone fall in love.

4. Can’t change the past. 

I think that first one might apply only to genies and which wishes they can grant, b/c we’ve seen plenty of magic practitioners commit murder on OUaT. But the other three, I think, are pretty consistent with the other times that the limitations of magic have been mentioned on OUaT.

Now, I’m coming at this from the perspective of having just finished a rewatch of OUaT s5, with Hook’s death and then return from the Underworld. I had literally watched Robin Hood’s death and funeral just two days before, with the emphasis from the show that he can’t come back. So it was fresh in my mind that they obviously broke rule #2 with Hook. 

But…didn’t they already break it with Rumple in 3×11? He came back from the dead too. 

Now, I’ve enjoyed fantasy and sci-fi since I was a kid, and I’m willing to suspend disbelief and accept any number of fantastical things happening in a book, movie, or TV show. The one thing I ask, is that the creators of the fictional world play by their own rules. And if they break their own rules, there better be a damn good reason for the exception. 

So…what’s the exception for both cases? Was Rumple able to come back b/c he was the Dark One? Did the fact that he killed himself, with the Dark One dagger, having anything to do with it? It’s been established that the only way to kill the Dark One is with the dagger, and the murderer becomes the next Dark One. So…I guess Rumple was both the murderer and the victim, in this case? If the Dark Ones were numbered on some list, I guess he’d be #247 and #248? 

And what was the exception for Hook? That one’s trickier b/c he wasn’t a Dark One at the moment of his death, so I’m not sure. 

Any theories, opinions? I’d really like to have a conversation about the rules of magic as stated on OUaT, and how they’ve bent those rules in certain cases. Can we have that conversation without bashing either Hook or Rumple, please?

Ok *dons tinfoil hat* I think this thread post could potentially get long with back and forth and I’m probably going to go on a bit, so under the cut for length 🙂

Rumple’s survival
Pre-underworld arc, my theory on how Rumple “came back from the dead” is that he was never actually dead. I thought that he had banished himself to the vault, where he would remain until someone let him out, it was sort of a way of containing the darkness.

He was the dark one and that curse tethered him to life. It’s sort of like in Warcraft, there’s this expression of “there must always be a Lich King” and I figured that perhaps there was a similar thing of “there must always be a dark one” and so Rumple couldn’t die because he hadn’t passed on the curse.

However, by respawning him in essence, that magic carried a hefty price – the death of the one that summoned him. So by not technically being dead, and the price of his ‘new life’ being the death of someone else. I was comfortable with that as fitting with the rules of magic. “Magic can do much but not that. Dead is dead.”

However, then season 5 completely torpedoed that because Rumple said he had been to the underworld, because he had gone and come back, that’s why his blood could summon the ferry. Therefore he was ‘dead’ and even the swapping of one life for another, didn’t really help.

I suppose it was still his curse, that tethered him to the living world but to be honest I would rather him never have been ‘technically dead’. I watch a lot of fantasy and sci-fi and I know ‘death is cheap’ but it can get a bit silly. My favorite show is Stargate SG1 and one of the characters on that (Daniel Jackson) died so many times it became a running gag. If he had ever died for real, nobody would have believed it. Death should have consequences.

Hook’s survival
Problematic to say the least. Like you said he wasn’t the dark one when he died, so there isn’t that excuse. Nothing tethered him to life, he was completely dead. Basically I guess it wasn’t magic that brought him back – it was the gods and they don’t have to obey the rules.

I would be a lot more comfortable with this if the reason Zeus had given had made sense. Nothing Hook did had any affect on the outcome with Hades, in fact it nearly made things worse as it almost convinced Zelena that Hades was right, and they were all working against her.

Plus putting this alongside Robin’s death, which was true self-sacrifice. How about other heroic deaths? Why didn’t they get a pass from the gods? It just didn’t seem fair and that’s not bashing Hook because if it was any character in Hook’s position, it wouldn’t be fair. I have no problem with them bringing Hook back, I just want it to make sense.

I actually wrote an alternate season six fanfic, in which I theorized that Zeus wasn’t Zeus, it was Loki and he was trolling everyone for his own amusement. That theory has no basis in fact but it made more sense than what little we know. To be honest, when it comes to Hooks survival I don’t think we know enough. I think there has to be something more to it, some reason why Zeus did what he did. I wish they would explore this in season 6 but I suspect that the storyline has wrapped now and they won’t revisit it.

So my theory in the end is the gods don’t have to obey the rules, and they did it for reasons unknown. Not exactly a good explanation but what other evidence is there to help form a better theory? /shrug

Magic can’t make someone fall in love
What about that magic dust on Guinevere? She certainly became the every appearance of a dutiful and loving wife afterwards. The Camelot arc was kinda dropped and so while they said that Arthur had been arrested off screen, they didn’t say what Guinevere’s fate had been.

I mean is the appearance of love when it’s magically induced essentially the same as real love to someone that doesn’t care about the difference? It’s not real love because it’s coerced but Arthur didn’t seem to care about that. It’s really horrible when you think about it, it took away her free will and that’s really sinister and creepy. Arthur was a nasty guy.

Can’t change the past
Although they’ve never mentioned it since, didn’t they allude to the story having been changed at the end of the season 3 finale? David remembered ‘Charles and Leia’ and how Snow and Charming met had been altered.

I have some serious problems with that because the only way time travel makes sense, and someone can go back to their own reality, is if it’s in a loop. In which case they don’t change anything, they only do what they had already done. Therefore Emma shouldn’t have remembered that the story was any different from what it ‘was’.

Otherwise the timeline branches and a new reality has formed. In which case when Emma and Hook returned to the present, everyone should have been seeing double, as their counterparts from the new reality would have been there.

To be honest this bothers me so much I pretend like it never happened. They didn’t change anything /hides