To be honest I kinda agree with the “change the rules every series” or you know even “change the rules ever 5 minutes”. Usually I’m all about finding in-universe explanations but with Once for my own happiness and sanity, I came to believe that creating a coherent narrative was easier if I ignored certain ‘canon’ bits. Some things just contradicted each other so much – at least in my opinion – and I guess I got attached to my version of the characters, and so I tried to make the show fit that and when it was impossible I ignored the show.
With my response to jackabelle I tried very hard to consider all the canon that I knew about/could remember as it was my understanding they wanted a canon meta explanation. That’s why I didn’t say anything about the writers changing the rules. I did call the Guardian a MacGuffin, but then that’s what people call the infinity stones in the MCU movies sometimes, it’s just a term and from my pov means nothing negative 🙂
Anyway, forgive me if this wasn’t your intent but I’m going to pick up on something I found very interesting in your message
making Regina do bad more than the DO curse
…
and I’ve gone on a lot so under the cut for length.
Has anyone written any meta, fic, or anything with a theory on why Rumbelle simply didn’t use TLK to break the Dark One curse? It’s been a popular fandom assumption all along that the only reason all their numerous kisses throughout the years didn’t break his curse, is b/c he didn’t let them. But if he wanted to break the curse, it should work, right? And wouldn’t that be a heckuva lot easier than all this Guardian business?
Could it be b/c they were afraid that the Darkness would simply go in search of another host, like when the Apprentice took the Darkness from Rumple’s body and it sought out Regina instead? But…. withdrawing the Darkness from its host and breaking the curse are two different things, so I’m not sure that logic holds. Maybe they just didn’t want to take the smallest risk of it happening.
I always headcanoned that his ring protected him from it. That he crafted it in the EF in case Belle came back and then it came over with the curse and Mr Gold wore it for 28 years. A little torment in the life of ‘comfort’, just like the boarded up library he passed everyday. He wouldn’t know why it made his heart hurt, not until he woke up from the curse anyway.
Leaving aside the season seven plot. Belle fell in love with Rumple as the dark one. She told Neal that she “loved all of him, even the parts that belonged to the darkness” and the season six finale had Rumple doing the right thing. Rumbelle had their happy beginning without TLK. Why would they want to break the curse of the dark one? Rumple had it under control and magic sure comes in handy – like the power to travel through magical realms on their world tour. It’s not a curse if it’s not a curse to the one that holds it.
Maybe that’s the answer. The guardian business is all a MacGuffin. All Rumple has to do is let go, to feel the curse chafing and poof TLK will take care of it. With Belle unavailable perhaps he should visit his son. Then he can grow old at Gideon’s side, hopefully Gideon will find love and have children (adopted or biological) and then in the fullness of time Rumple will … well you know.
The Asshole on the Horse was called Hordor, and he…
Ah, OK, got that slightly mixed up, then. And agreed on the general impression that the Duke can’t exactly have been a stellar human being.
Still, the ogres can’t have been that bad if they were, essentially, too lazy to win the war the obvious way.
My first thought was that he was using fear and scarcity to keep the population under control, but maybe that’s speculating too far on too little evidence
No, it’s not. The Duke could have ordered Zoso to kill all of the ogres or put a defensive magic shield around their kingdoms that the ogres couldn’t pass. He obviously didn’t want to end the war.
I read a fic once. I forget which one so I’m sorry I can’t credit properly the person whose idea it was (if it was yours please shout!) where the Duke was basically running an extortion racket.
He kept the ogres within his kingdom and charged neighbouring kingdoms for the protection. On the surface his people were suffering so their neighbours were sending aid. In reality they were paying him to keep the problem inside his borders and not theirs.
Given that Rumple was drafted against the ogres and then a generation later so was Bae, I suspect the Duke kept the war simmering. He had to let it flare and die down in turn so that people would have kids, and give him another generation of expendable soldiers. He probably used Zoso for that, to ensure the ogre war didn’t get out of control.
This is difficult. Is this grown-up Gideon ‘raised’ by the Black fairy? Gideon raised by Rumple and Belle? I’m guessing not child!Gideon as we pretty much never saw him. As you didn’t specify I’m going to choose and say “Black fairy raised Gideon” as that’s the one we spent several episodes with.
general opinion:fall in a hole and die | don’t like them | eh | they’re fine I guess | like them! | love them | actual love of my life hotness level:get away from me | meh | neutral | theoretically hot but not my type | pretty hot | gorgeous! | 10/10 would bang hogwarts house: gryffindor | slytherin | ravenclaw | hufflepuff
best quality: scheming. I liked how he planned a few moves in advance, anticipated what people would do and was where they would be – not where they were. To be honest that’s a quality I love in Rumple as well. Just being smart about things. Second best is his loyalty. I love his motivations and how he’s clever about finding ways round his restrictions to protect those he cares about.
worst quality: struggling to think of one off the top of my head actually. I think that’s because we only really saw him during the ‘endgame’ so he was at his best. If he hadn’t been de-aged my headcanon says his conscience because I think he would have beaten himself up about things he couldn’t control, and felt guilty when he couldn’t have done different. He was too good and needed to embrace the darkside a little more.
ship them with: and we reach the powder-keg question in this fandom. I don’t particularly ship Gideon with anyone. I never saw that magic chemistry on screen which made me go “I ship it!”. However strictly on paper if Gideon hadn’t been deaged then I think Regina would have been a good match. *ducks rotting fruit* I know, I’m sorry. It’s just they both understand darkness, both understand parental expectations.
Regina was never enough for Cora and Gideon would never be the baby his parents lost – never be the son he would have been had they raised him. Regina had to fight for acceptance just like Gideon would after having been in the ‘villain’ position opposite the Charming’s. I just think they could understand one another and because of that not have to fear showing weakness – instead they could be each others strength when it was needed.
brotp them with: Emma is an obvious choice. Again this is on paper because we never got a chance to see it on screen but Emma was stripped from her parents just minutes after her birth and returned to them aged 28 – returned to parents who physically aren’t old enough to BE her parents just like Belle couldn’t be the mother of a 28-year-old.
Nobody else could understand that situation. If Belle and Rumple had another child, nobody else could feel the mixed emotions Emma must have felt when Snow and David had baby!Neal. Are they a replacement? Can they ever love me how they love him because of how we met? Will I always be different? Always the outsider?
I’m trying to think. With all the curses it’s hard to remember who is still in Storybrooke but I think Gideon could become good friends with someone who came over with the second/third curse. They wouldn’t have cursed memories, they would know what it’s like to thrown into a whole new world with a different culture. I know the fourth curse (the black fairy’s one) might have given Gideon cursed memories. I don’t know.
Oh and of course Henry who would take his dad’s place of gleefully dragging Gideon to the movies, and teaching him playstation, and lending him comics and setting up netflix and iTunes/Spotify for this worlds music. I imagine the day after Henry showed Gideon YouTube, he goes wide-eyed and bloodshot to the diner the next day, after not having slept all night. The YouTube rabbit hole is real.
needs to stay away from: Zelena. No explanation necessary right? Yeah.
misc. thoughts: I think I’ve rambled on enough to be honest. 99% of this is headcanon as I did Black Fairy Gideon. I just really liked him. He was everything I like in characters really, except maybe a bit too good (embrace the dark side!) but in truth he was a good balance between Belle and Rumple. I mean in season 6 canon he got Rumple and Belle talking again, and I think if he hadn’t been deaged then he would have got them talking more about light and dark until they understood each others viewpoint a bit better.
With the recent casting announcement I’m going to post a crack idea that adds season seven details to a crack fanfic idea I had from when I was having a snarky day.
Apparently I’m having a sarcastic day today as well. This doesn’t really reflect my views of the show. I’m just being silly.
Anyway an adult Robyn (Zelena’s daughter) is now in the picture so…
Basically – Wicked Witch 2.0.
She heard about her mother’s past and was proud for all of two seconds until she learned of Zelena’s failure. She decides to succeed and actually “change everything” with time travel wahoo because nothing is more confusing on a show that has frequently flashbacks than then playing around with the timeline.
Only trouble is … presenting the “ooops broke it trope” where she succeeds in traveling back in time but she also kinda fractures the universe. The barriers between realms start to break down, time goes weird with some people aging and some people not but because it was a spell – nobody notices.
It’s like when you travel across the galaxy and fall out of the wormhole and get somewhere weeks earlier than you left – it makes that kind of sense aka not much at all.
Then we present the “amnesia trope” and “you thought it was the bad guy but it was us trope” which is a rehash of ‘Dark Curse 2.0′ aka echoing Zelena’s story even more (because they love that) where the good guys cast the curse to go to Hyperion Heights as that evacuates everyone from the collapsing realm and they add the cursed memories to keep Robyn out of the way while they take care of it.
The only trouble is they have to team up with Lady Tremaine in order to cast the spell (because plot twist) and of course Lady Tremaine has her own plans and so she double crosses them. They weren’t supposed to have cursed memories, just like Regina never did the first time around, but Lady Tremaine swaps their exception for her own.
Wait, wait, I hear you ask – what was that darkness that came for Henry, and then Lucy and Tiger Lily in the forest. Well
1) this show drops plots like that all the time, it was last season does anyone remember that?
2) as a less snarky response and because they like to juggle lots of plots at once, that was ‘the darkness’ coming for Henry.
Also because my sarcasm valve is stuck wide open let’s say that Henry is the guardian but the vault doesn’t want to stay closed. Rumple heard that legend when it was just the dark one but it’s Merlin’s powers as well now and it’s just too much.
So Rumple takes the curse back, which is why he has it and didn’t die in Hyperion Heights. He sacrifices eternity with Belle to be the hero that she would want him to be.
Only this is a show about hope! Happy endings! So blah blah season seven and then they defeat Robyn but there’s only one way to knit the timelines back together *drum roll please*
Once Upon a Time there was a small town in Maine.
*knock knock* “Are you Emma Swan?”
and the bug drives into town.
“Every story in this book actually happened.”
“The End”
I was expecting Rumbelle, I was not expecting all the ensemble amazingness. The Regina and Henry blink and miss it moment, Henry and Jacinda ,all the stuff between Tilly and Weaver, the not so subtle stuff with Rogers and Tilly, Ivy becoming more of a fleshed out character – and potentially the rehash of the triangle of Snow/David/Kathryn.
Also Gideon and his offer. I had an EF AU where Rumple made a different choice and did pass on the curse to his son, his family legacy essentially becoming the guardians protecting the realms from the darkness.
Given Rumple said that the portal would take him to the moment with the Guardian two people were there – Alice and Henry. Now I don’t believe Alice is the guardian but Henry? What could be purer than the heart of the truest believer? Plus it would be like I said, Rumple’s family legacy in keeping the realms safe from the darkness.
Oh and I’m in utter denial by the way. I literally can’t cope with the alternative. The whole house montage, the clips from past episodes – Skin Deep, the return of the cup, the doing the curtains again – TOO MANY FEELS!!! I don’t do well with finality and the dreaded character d-d-dea—— gone for a bit, just doesn’t happen in my world.
I haven’t even mentioned the adorable birthday party.
I am dead I tell you. I am an ex-Sam, slayed my shipper heart.
1) Why did he say Emma and Regina? Did it have to be actual names for the magic? It was weird not to hear “my moms”.
2) I really loved Regina going “I’m his mother” but erm explanations please. Like how did they make a portal directly to Henry? Why are they all not really weirded out that Henry has aged by years, but clearly they haven’t? I mean I know it’s hard to tell how long it’s been due to the different actors and then this flashback is 10 years ago from present day. Ugh I have a headache.
3) What the hell????? I can tell I’ve reached the dubbed dialogue and please sweet Merlin don’t tell me RC is playing Weaver as a cockney? He had his normal accent last episode. I’m going to cry. This is painful. It’s completely wrecking this for me. Different accents work for imp!Rumple but this is just wrong.
I don’t know if I can watch.
It’s like audio and visual doesn’t gel. I’ve seen RC in other roles with the wrong accent but I wasn’t invested in those. I get it’s a character choice and I’m being quite selfish about it but dammit I feel like having a tantrum. I mean, alright I admit it, a big part of the attraction is the accent. I was loving the casual look and the whole cop thing but it’s utterly ruined by the accent.
4) I’m not really clear on how wish!Hook travelled to the real alternate realm, but they didn’t explain how Regina and Hook did either. Also makeup wasn’t as good at aging him up as it was for the wish!episode. Ok how did wish!Hook know Lady Tremaine? This whole “real or not real” debate just exploded.
5) Colin is a fantastic actor. He’s doing great at playing fake!Hook trying to be Hook in this flashback.
6) Henry is persisting in saying Emma and I thought he had pretty much completely swapped over to mom. I know that was potentially confusing at times as it was interchangeable but I was never confused. It was always very clear and while I 110% support Regina as Henry’s mom, Emma is his mom just as much in many ways. They had the fake memories of her raising him. They are family.
7) What Emma jumped realms separately now too? Seriously how easy is it? How are they doing this?
8) Wait wish!Hook has a kid? A witch captured her and he snuck in to play chess. She is my knight, he had her rook. His heart was poisoned so he couldn’t save her, true love the only cure. That’s a sad story but, but major point here …
a) Emma wasn’t even willing to try and save him. She just started with the excuses. Shouldn’t she have tried before saying magic didn’t work? Or said she was worried about the price? After all healing Robin of a mortal wound brought the fury, Emma could have been worried about her pregnancy but they didn’t say any of that.
b) Far more importantly – the Hook we are watching, the cursed!Hook is a completely different character. Isn’t that like saying Hook only existed for CaptainSwan? Or saying that the characters of Emma and Hook together don’t work independently so only reboot Hook can work on his own? Either way it seems odd. I mean surely fans of the character would want the character they have been invested in for years?
9) I love Weaver standing up to Belfry, saying she doesn’t own him, and also telling fake!Hook, cursed!Hook, wish!Hook? I don’t know what to tag, that he was glad to have found a moral core – that he wanted that. It’s another mystery to Weaver.
10) I really like that Henry asked Regina to stay as her story wasn’t over either. I liked Regina’s enthusiastic “could this be one of your operations?” as it added some much needed levity to what could otherwise have been very emotional.
There are so many versions of Rumbelle I’d be here all day if I ran through all of them. I’m going to go with my headcanon for them which basically springs from the early seasons. Hope that’s ok 🙂
Who asks the other on dates: Belle. She’ll say “fancy doing x, y or z later?” or spot an advert for something and ask if he wants to go, or she’ll hear about something (*cough* ok mostly read about something* she wants to try and she’ll bring it up. Rumple is more the ‘accidental date’ kind. In that they’ll just happen to walk in the direction of the beach and see an amazing sunset, or he’ll just happen to have a table booked when Belle says she’s hungry etc. He doesn’t like to presume, so he always waits for Belle to make the first move in terms of wanting to spend time with him.
Who is the bigger cuddler: Rumple. Belle likes snuggling a lot but Rumple’s just a big teddy bear (so long as they are alone that is!). He reaches for her in the night, if she stays, and she wakes up in his arms no matter how they fell asleep. It’s not something he dares do when he’s awake so she makes sure to hug him as often as possible. The happy soft sigh and how he nuzzles into her hair always makes her heart skip a beat.
Who initiates holding hands more often: Definitely Belle. Rumple loves holding her hand and it’s not even something he minds doing in public. His reputation only matters when it comes to the safety of his family (Rumple believes a healthy dose of fear about him helps with that) but they get enough disdainful looks as it is. Belle doesn’t like those looks either because Rumple goes on a “I’m a beast sweetheart, no matter what I look like in this realm, and my claw in yours …” (she always interrupts then and reminds him for the Nth time that she fell in love with him in the old world). They’ve settled on a middle-ground of linking arms and are both happy with that.
Who remembers anniversaries: Rumple. Belle tries but in between cursed years and time spent in other realms she thoroughly lost track. Rumple smirked and enjoyed surprising and spoiling her tremendously for the first year. After that Belle had written down the dates he used and (in between curses) did her best with them. Unfortunately because of all the frozen time sometimes the dates moved leaving her to huff in frustration. Rumple says everyday is a gift with her in his life. Belle always has to kiss him for that and has settled for sometimes doing a “just because” special time for the two of them.
Who is more possessive: Bizarrely it’s Belle. I say bizarrely because most people would say Rumple. However the only time he’s ever challenged Belle’s autonomy has been when he’s been terrified for her safety. Rumple only wants Belle to stay if she wants, and secretly he believes she’ll walk out one day, and decide he’s too much trouble. Whereas Belle stakes her claim in a few different ways. She’ll commit Rumple to help with things without asking but she’ll also guard him against the unreasonable. The time the Charming’s asked for help four days in a row they found themselves being given a pile of books (as Belle just had to help a little) and a firm admonishment not to come back for at least a week unless it was life and death.
Who gets more jealous: Neither of them. They aren’t jealous people. Rumple just wants Belle to be happy. He would give her his blessing to be with someone else if that would make her happier. Belle I think has the capability to be jealous. I think if she saw someone putting the moves on Rumple she’d make it very clear that Rumple was hers, but that has never happened. If Rumple thought about it (which he hasn’t) he would say nobody wanted to proposition the Dark One, and Belle would probably say something about it being their loss.
Who is more protective: Rumple – slightly. It’s quite close though. Belle won’t stand for anyone badmouthing him around her. Legitimate complaints are fine (she does know what he can be like) but out and out insults are not. She draws a line and doesn’t hesitate to tear strips off anyone who crosses it. Rumple is obviously more concerned with physical safety. Belle understands his point and they’ve had several fights because she doesn’t want to stand on the sidelines – she wants to be his partner in all ways – and he’s just terrified. Usually Belle can get through to him by quite logically pointing out that the safest place in the world for her to be is right by his side.
Who is more likely to cheat: Neither – never!
Who initiates sexy times the most: Rumple would say Belle because he doesn’t believe he initiates. Belle would dispute that and say he most definitely does! It’s not verbal or physical but the heat in his eyes, the flutter of his spinner fingers, how he moves – she knows when he’s interested and all it takes from her is a heated kiss, a close embrace or a wandering hand and Rumple loses all reservations. Once he knows she wants him, he never disappoints.
Who dislikes PDA the most: Rumple. He’s a private man and he doesn’t like the disparaging comments. Belle doesn’t like them either but she likes to prove publicly to him sometimes that she isn’t ashamed of him.
Who kills the spider: Rumple. Belle knows she should be afraid, and she isn’t really, but she just doesn’t like how fast they skitter away and how sometimes when she reaches for them they crawl onto her. It reminds her too much of the tower or the asylum where she was imprisoned. Fortunately she only has to start to say his name with intent and he’s by her side. The spider gets dealt with, she gets a hug, and all is well.
Who asks the the other to marry them: Well in an alternate world where 3B never happened I would still say Rumple. It wouldn’t be done in haste, in desperation to hold onto the one good thing left in his life, so in many ways asking would be 10x harder. Rumple is terrified, sick with nerves and totally out of inspiration. He wants it to be special. This is the final moment that mends things between father and son as after Neal sees him like this he knows without a doubt that his Papa has returned.
It was the phonecall to Belle that started the process as Neal was surprised Rumple could still love like that. He loses all hesitancy seeing his father unable to form words he’s so panicked. Neal consults with Emma but it’s Henry that comes up with the idea. In the movie the dance led to ‘the beast’ letting Belle go, how about ending it with asking for forever? Rumple transforms the cabin and Belle smiling through tears reminds him she promised forever once before and jokes saying “nobody breaks a deal with me remember?”
Who buys the other flowers or gifts: With Belle’s father running the flower shop they don’t tend to exchange formal flowers and Rumple conjuring up a rose lost some of it’s allure when he admitted the truth about Gaston. Belle likes wildflowers anyway, they bring the outside in and help her feel free. Rumple leaves a small posy for her at least a few times a week at the library. Belle early on put her foot down about gifts, it’s Rumple she wanted and not his magic or his wealth. They mostly share their time and their interests. Belle will give him a book she enjoyed so they can talk about it together, or quite often she’ll read to him. Just quiet time snuggled together.
Who would bring up possibly having kids: Rumple. He didn’t mean to he was reminiscing about Bae and let slip “our children one day” he was immediately horrified but before he could stammer apologies Belle beamed. She hadn’t known how to bring it up and she’d been unsure how Rumple would feel. He had a grandson now and starting over might not hold any appeal. She wanted a life of her own, she wanted to travel etc. but she really wanted a family with her true love. They don’t start right then as they are happy being a couple but decide within a year or two for sure.
Who is more nervous to meet the parents: Neither because there wasn’t the opportunity. Colette was dead before Rumple and Belle met, and Rumple met Moe the same day he met Belle for the first time. Malcolm/Pan was dealt with and there was never any introductions done. Both Rumple and Belle hope Fiona/The Black Fairy will stay in her dark realm.
Who sleeps on the couch when the other is angry: Rumple wishes with every fiber of his being that it was him, he would never want to kick Belle out of the room, it should be him but it’s not. Belle is always the one that walks away needing her space. He at least convinced her to use a spare room and not the couch, he was concerned she would be cold and uncomfortable.
Who tries to make up first after arguments: Rumple which sometimes leads to the argument lasting even longer. Belle doesn’t mean to get irritated it’s just if she’s already angry over whatever they were fighting about, her patience with him is very limited. She loves him dearly and they always wind up in a big mess of apologies when they are both ready to make up. Once that’s done they have a reasoned discussion and fix whatever the issue was, it’s relatively rare that the discussion sparks another argument but it has happened.
Who tells the other they love them more often: Rumple. At first he said it quietly, just whispering like she wasn’t supposed to hear. It was like he thought that soon he wouldn’t be able to say it, so he wanted to make sure that she knew. He never goes anywhere without saying “I love you” and never ends a phone conversation without it either – no matter who is listening. It’s the one thing he doesn’t budge on. He’s not worried if Belle doesn’t say it back but he doesn’t want her to have any doubt as to his feelings.
New favorite character – I utterly love Cinderella/Jacinda.
She is so badass. Like in present day she stood up to her jerk boss. She was so close to crying and giving in but she stayed true to herself and that took tremendous strength. What showed even more strength was when she swallowed her pride and went back at the end. She did it because it was the right thing to do for her daughter, because family is more important. Honestly I couldn’t love her anymore than I do.
